This comment is related to the following quote, which I think is factually incorrect: "Biden also upbraided Trump’s Republican acolytes in the House for failure to pass the bipartisan border security and foreign aid bill ... passed overwhelmingly by the Senate."
I may be misreading the Congress.gov review of the National Security Act (H.R. 815, passed the Senate on February 12, 2024 by a vote of 70 to 29), but I think the version that overwhelmingly passed the Senate, was stripped of the border security provisions contained in the early February version of the bill.
Here is a link to the Congress.gov page that allows one to review Senate-passed H.R. 815 (note that it seems odd to me that a Senate-passed bill is numbered H.R. 815 -- but perhaps it is so-numbered because it originated in the House):
So because Americans don't want to send hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine with no accountability to support a war that is clearly not winnable -- they are Putin/terrorist supporters? This is how lazy the left has become.
3) It's $113 billion over almost two years, with a $60 billion request in the wings. Over three years that's just under $58 billion a year.
4) Depriving Ukraine of the aid it needs to repel Russian aggression and then claiming the war is unwinnable - an extremely debatable claim - is a textbook example of chutzpah.
5) It's entirely reasonable to make the claims the OP does - simply because that is what a lot of conservatives are in fact doing. Indeed, it's not at all a stretch to claim that some of these voices *are* Putin supporters.
1) Most Americans do want to send aid to Ukraine, if you believe the polls. –
Can you tell me which poll asks Americans if they are in favor of paying 600,000+ Ukrainian teacher salaries? First responder salaries? Ukraine pensions? All with borrowed money.
According to CBS News, American officials are now investigating four criminal cases involving non-military aid, and 170 Ukrainian government officials — including high-ranking military officers — have been charged in corruption cases so far this year, for crimes like embezzlement and accepting bribes.
3) It's $113 billion over almost two years, with a $60 billion request in the wings. Over three years that's just under $58 billion a year.
Does that figure include military weapons such as tanks, F-16s, artillery, etc? Factories are going into 24/7 production (Scranton Scranton Army Ammunition Plant) and defense contractor revenues are soaring (Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, and Northrup Grumman, etc.). Are U.S. weapon stockpiles being depleted? Does that figure include United States Agency International Development funds?
4) Depriving Ukraine of the aid it needs to repel Russian aggression and then claiming the war is unwinnable - an extremely debatable claim - is a textbook example of chutzpah.
Please define, specifically, what would a “win” look like? Defeating Russia? I can’t find any source that states something like that is even possible. Best case scenario seems to be a stalemate that goes on for years. Do you think Americans can afford to support and rebuild another country given our financial problems and the needs of our citizens?
5) It's entirely reasonable to make the claims the OP does - simply because that is what a lot of conservatives are in fact doing. Indeed, it's not at all a stretch to claim that some of these voices *are* Putin supporters.
Asking the government for full disclosure doesn't make you a Putin supporter. Demanding blind obedience seems more Putin-like to me.
I am not convinced of the causal connections that are suggested here. How do we know Russia is buying weapons because of a lack of US resistance to its Ukraine offensive. It seems like the opposite conclusion is possible. It could also be hypothesized that US escalation in these conflicts is driving these countries into each other’s arms. The US is recklessly toying with unimaginable risks in order to stop a bully in a conflict that is largely between different Ukrainian factions. As is occasionally the case in recent years, the GOP may be on the right side of things for the wrong reasons and the Democrats might be choosing the wrong policies for admirable reasons. Nuclear war is still our greatest existential threat. A slight misunderstanding could end all life on earth. Why are the Democrats so cavalier in upsetting a peace that allows our very existence? These important concerns seem bizarrely irrelevant to Democrats whose sudden hawkishness I find scary.
This comment is related to the following quote, which I think is factually incorrect: "Biden also upbraided Trump’s Republican acolytes in the House for failure to pass the bipartisan border security and foreign aid bill ... passed overwhelmingly by the Senate."
I may be misreading the Congress.gov review of the National Security Act (H.R. 815, passed the Senate on February 12, 2024 by a vote of 70 to 29), but I think the version that overwhelmingly passed the Senate, was stripped of the border security provisions contained in the early February version of the bill.
Here is a link to the Congress.gov page that allows one to review Senate-passed H.R. 815 (note that it seems odd to me that a Senate-passed bill is numbered H.R. 815 -- but perhaps it is so-numbered because it originated in the House):
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1182/vote_118_2_00048.htm#position
Very good point. American cultural conservatives imagine kindred spirits in the Kremlin.
So because Americans don't want to send hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine with no accountability to support a war that is clearly not winnable -- they are Putin/terrorist supporters? This is how lazy the left has become.
1) Most Americans do want to send aid to Ukraine, if you believe the polls.
2) There is accountability - there is even an entire website outlining oversight efforts. (https://www.ukraineoversight.gov)
3) It's $113 billion over almost two years, with a $60 billion request in the wings. Over three years that's just under $58 billion a year.
4) Depriving Ukraine of the aid it needs to repel Russian aggression and then claiming the war is unwinnable - an extremely debatable claim - is a textbook example of chutzpah.
5) It's entirely reasonable to make the claims the OP does - simply because that is what a lot of conservatives are in fact doing. Indeed, it's not at all a stretch to claim that some of these voices *are* Putin supporters.
Thank you for your reply to my comments.
1) Most Americans do want to send aid to Ukraine, if you believe the polls. –
Can you tell me which poll asks Americans if they are in favor of paying 600,000+ Ukrainian teacher salaries? First responder salaries? Ukraine pensions? All with borrowed money.
2) There is accountability - there is even an entire website outlining oversight efforts. (https://www.ukraineoversight.gov)
According to CBS News, American officials are now investigating four criminal cases involving non-military aid, and 170 Ukrainian government officials — including high-ranking military officers — have been charged in corruption cases so far this year, for crimes like embezzlement and accepting bribes.
3) It's $113 billion over almost two years, with a $60 billion request in the wings. Over three years that's just under $58 billion a year.
Does that figure include military weapons such as tanks, F-16s, artillery, etc? Factories are going into 24/7 production (Scranton Scranton Army Ammunition Plant) and defense contractor revenues are soaring (Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, and Northrup Grumman, etc.). Are U.S. weapon stockpiles being depleted? Does that figure include United States Agency International Development funds?
4) Depriving Ukraine of the aid it needs to repel Russian aggression and then claiming the war is unwinnable - an extremely debatable claim - is a textbook example of chutzpah.
Please define, specifically, what would a “win” look like? Defeating Russia? I can’t find any source that states something like that is even possible. Best case scenario seems to be a stalemate that goes on for years. Do you think Americans can afford to support and rebuild another country given our financial problems and the needs of our citizens?
5) It's entirely reasonable to make the claims the OP does - simply because that is what a lot of conservatives are in fact doing. Indeed, it's not at all a stretch to claim that some of these voices *are* Putin supporters.
Asking the government for full disclosure doesn't make you a Putin supporter. Demanding blind obedience seems more Putin-like to me.
I am not convinced of the causal connections that are suggested here. How do we know Russia is buying weapons because of a lack of US resistance to its Ukraine offensive. It seems like the opposite conclusion is possible. It could also be hypothesized that US escalation in these conflicts is driving these countries into each other’s arms. The US is recklessly toying with unimaginable risks in order to stop a bully in a conflict that is largely between different Ukrainian factions. As is occasionally the case in recent years, the GOP may be on the right side of things for the wrong reasons and the Democrats might be choosing the wrong policies for admirable reasons. Nuclear war is still our greatest existential threat. A slight misunderstanding could end all life on earth. Why are the Democrats so cavalier in upsetting a peace that allows our very existence? These important concerns seem bizarrely irrelevant to Democrats whose sudden hawkishness I find scary.