I’m much more worried about the threats to democracy from Democrat abuse of the courts, partisan collusion with big tech, open borders, crime policy that favors criminals over victims, politicized energy policy, and radical leftists in positions of power than from anything Trump has done. Add in Biden’s dementia and his family’s multimillion dollar influence peddling operation and the Democrats can go pound sand.
Yes. When I hear "save our Democracy" it sounds to me like the "our" is the most important word. Whose democracy? Not the regular, everyday Americans. Plus, I think the Biden administration has done some damage by choosing to prosecute political dissidents, like the whistleblower in the Texas Children's hospital.
Normal people just trying to make ends meet aren't preoccupied with abstractions like democracy and authoritarianism. When Dems talk endlessly about these things, they come across as out-of-touch elites who don't know how much a gallon of milk or a tank of gas costs.
Lots of voters may not be "preoccupied" with democracy, but if we lose it, we all (except the very wealthy) will be worrying a lot more about "making ends meet" than we do today. Just ask citizens of Hungary, Poland, or Russia- all who fairly recently did live in democracies only to see them get taken over by dictators. Only Poland has succeeded in partially reversing its authoritarian misfortune.
As Churchill used to say, "Democracy is the worst form of government .... except for all the others ..."
The question in my mind isn't "Is Trump an authoritarian menace?" but "Is running on 'Trump is an authoritarian menace'" the most compelling message for swing voters. I'm pretty sure the answer is no for the reasons Ruy lays out, but I could be wrong.
Given the behavior of the Democratic Party towards its own voters - suppressing any primary challenge to President Biden, forcing primary candidates off the ballot, attempting to disqualify Trump from state ballots - and against the American electorate in general - pursuing legal cases against Trump in an effort to disqualify or at least discredit him in the eyes of voters - it is clear that the future of democracy is indeed at stake in this election, just not in the way Biden and hisz supporters claim it is.
Shortly after Michael Dukakis lost the Presidency to George H. W. Bush, his sister, Olympia Dukakis, an actress, was heard to say: "How could Michael lose, Everyone I know voted for him." That seems to be where Biden's campaign is and may well remain.
I disagree. It may well be that democracy is not on the “ballot” but it is on the line. I’d feel better about the essential honesty of this column if the author simply opened by saying that he thought Trump was a fine man, unlikely to govern any differently than anyone else, fine morals, be happy introducing him to his daughter. Then I’d knkw where he stands. As it is this is one of those endless horse race pieces in which someone pretends the race is,no different than any other
I don't know, I'm kind of with the author on this one. Can you articulate what specifically you feel is at risk in terms of our democracy if Donald Trump is re-elected? I hear people say it all the time, but I just don't see it. I get you don't like the guy, but how exactly is democracy 'on the line' in this election? What specifically are you concerned he'll do and on what do you base your concern?
Many people can only read things they agree with, even if what they want to believe is factually and statistically incorrect. Good on you for being able to think about the truth as it is, rather than what you'd like it to be.
It’s too long and fraught a discussion,to have via email. I see him as the most dangerous person ever to be anywhere near the presidency and I think he represents the end of a 200 effort to build a liberal democracy. And while,I know it is old and therefore boring news, I think it’s undeniable that he attempted an actual insurrection and makes real,efforts prior to that to use the American military to support his efforts to subvert democracy. If someone believes against a lot of evidence that he’s a fine fellow I can’t dissuade them and have zero interest in trying. In any case my guess is he will win and we will find out.
Agree that there's no real point in debating in a forum such as this. I'd just say that the fact that two seemingly intelligent and rationale people can look at the same event in completely different ways lends credibility to the thrust of this article. I'd posit that you and I are part of the relatively small portion of the electorate for which the 'threat to democracy' issue is very important, yet we see the issue in completely opposite ways. I can make a well-reasoned argument that Biden, but more so the progressive wing of your party, are the true 'threat to democracy'. When all is said and done, I hope it's the issues actually impacting people's day-to-day lives that will decide the election...the economy, immigration, and abortion will be deciding factors.
While Team Biden's running on "protecting democracy" may not be the idea campaign strategy, democracy *is* clearly on the ballot. Trump has said he "will be a dictator on day one" and we had better believe him on this.
We've never had a major presidential candidate make such an outrageous and dangerous claim. If that doesn't put what's left of American democracy on the ballot, then I don't know what does.
Hannity: "I want to go back to this one issue though because the media has been focused on this and attacking you. Under no circumstances you're promising America tonight you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody?"
Trump: "Except for Day 1."
Hannity: "Except for?"
Trump: (pointing to Hannity) "Look, he’s going crazy. Except for Day 1."
Hannity: "Meaning?"
Trump: "I want to close the border and I want to drill, drill, drill."
Hannity: "That’s not retribution."
Trump, referring to Hannity: "We love this guy. He says, ‘You are not going to be a dictator, are you?’ I said, ‘No, no, no, other than Day 1.’ We are closing the border and we are drilling, drilling, drilling. After that I am not a dictator, OK?"
Hannity: "That sounds to me like you’re going back to the policies when you were president
A convicted felon of? Checks notes: mislabeling a bookeeping entry, of which will be overturned on appeal, in a heavily dem district, with a dem judge, by a dem prosecutor who ran his campaign on "getting Trump" No one buys this crap, which is why he's still winning in polls.
You are in the Cult of Trump, a parallel world of MAGA propaganda where objective reality, science, evidence, facts, logic are forbidden from entry.
If you think that a Trump 2.0 regime would not be an authoritarian state, then you are even more naive than I first imagined. Trump's whole rationale for getting back in the White House is to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison and to grift at levels far in excess of his first term. Ruling as a dictator and demanding absolute loyalty from all mid-level and senior USG employees, Judges, and military officers guarantees him the best chance of maximizing his income and staying in office for as long as he breathes.
It's hard to avoid the conclusion that Biden and his campaign are unduly influenced by what they believe should be true rather than what is true. They see Trump as an unspeakably evil man who is an existential threat to democracy and can’t imagine why that view wouldn’t be everybody’s and drive their vote inexorably toward Biden. But it isn’t and the sooner they realize that, the better their chances of actually beating the Bad Orange Man.
Trends in American politics are always far less partisan then they appear, and the recent antidemocratic trend is just one example of it. Biden is arguably the first president since Carter not to understand this.
I’m much more worried about the threats to democracy from Democrat abuse of the courts, partisan collusion with big tech, open borders, crime policy that favors criminals over victims, politicized energy policy, and radical leftists in positions of power than from anything Trump has done. Add in Biden’s dementia and his family’s multimillion dollar influence peddling operation and the Democrats can go pound sand.
Yes. When I hear "save our Democracy" it sounds to me like the "our" is the most important word. Whose democracy? Not the regular, everyday Americans. Plus, I think the Biden administration has done some damage by choosing to prosecute political dissidents, like the whistleblower in the Texas Children's hospital.
Normal people just trying to make ends meet aren't preoccupied with abstractions like democracy and authoritarianism. When Dems talk endlessly about these things, they come across as out-of-touch elites who don't know how much a gallon of milk or a tank of gas costs.
Lots of voters may not be "preoccupied" with democracy, but if we lose it, we all (except the very wealthy) will be worrying a lot more about "making ends meet" than we do today. Just ask citizens of Hungary, Poland, or Russia- all who fairly recently did live in democracies only to see them get taken over by dictators. Only Poland has succeeded in partially reversing its authoritarian misfortune.
As Churchill used to say, "Democracy is the worst form of government .... except for all the others ..."
The question in my mind isn't "Is Trump an authoritarian menace?" but "Is running on 'Trump is an authoritarian menace'" the most compelling message for swing voters. I'm pretty sure the answer is no for the reasons Ruy lays out, but I could be wrong.
Given the behavior of the Democratic Party towards its own voters - suppressing any primary challenge to President Biden, forcing primary candidates off the ballot, attempting to disqualify Trump from state ballots - and against the American electorate in general - pursuing legal cases against Trump in an effort to disqualify or at least discredit him in the eyes of voters - it is clear that the future of democracy is indeed at stake in this election, just not in the way Biden and hisz supporters claim it is.
Excellent synopsis. The Democratic Party may be surprised to find, for all but a sliver of voters, Jan 6th, is just the day that follows Jan 5th.
Shortly after Michael Dukakis lost the Presidency to George H. W. Bush, his sister, Olympia Dukakis, an actress, was heard to say: "How could Michael lose, Everyone I know voted for him." That seems to be where Biden's campaign is and may well remain.
I disagree. It may well be that democracy is not on the “ballot” but it is on the line. I’d feel better about the essential honesty of this column if the author simply opened by saying that he thought Trump was a fine man, unlikely to govern any differently than anyone else, fine morals, be happy introducing him to his daughter. Then I’d knkw where he stands. As it is this is one of those endless horse race pieces in which someone pretends the race is,no different than any other
I don't know, I'm kind of with the author on this one. Can you articulate what specifically you feel is at risk in terms of our democracy if Donald Trump is re-elected? I hear people say it all the time, but I just don't see it. I get you don't like the guy, but how exactly is democracy 'on the line' in this election? What specifically are you concerned he'll do and on what do you base your concern?
Many people can only read things they agree with, even if what they want to believe is factually and statistically incorrect. Good on you for being able to think about the truth as it is, rather than what you'd like it to be.
It’s too long and fraught a discussion,to have via email. I see him as the most dangerous person ever to be anywhere near the presidency and I think he represents the end of a 200 effort to build a liberal democracy. And while,I know it is old and therefore boring news, I think it’s undeniable that he attempted an actual insurrection and makes real,efforts prior to that to use the American military to support his efforts to subvert democracy. If someone believes against a lot of evidence that he’s a fine fellow I can’t dissuade them and have zero interest in trying. In any case my guess is he will win and we will find out.
Agree that there's no real point in debating in a forum such as this. I'd just say that the fact that two seemingly intelligent and rationale people can look at the same event in completely different ways lends credibility to the thrust of this article. I'd posit that you and I are part of the relatively small portion of the electorate for which the 'threat to democracy' issue is very important, yet we see the issue in completely opposite ways. I can make a well-reasoned argument that Biden, but more so the progressive wing of your party, are the true 'threat to democracy'. When all is said and done, I hope it's the issues actually impacting people's day-to-day lives that will decide the election...the economy, immigration, and abortion will be deciding factors.
While Team Biden's running on "protecting democracy" may not be the idea campaign strategy, democracy *is* clearly on the ballot. Trump has said he "will be a dictator on day one" and we had better believe him on this.
We've never had a major presidential candidate make such an outrageous and dangerous claim. If that doesn't put what's left of American democracy on the ballot, then I don't know what does.
"For one day" to shut the border. Everything in context.
Nonsense
Hannity: "I want to go back to this one issue though because the media has been focused on this and attacking you. Under no circumstances you're promising America tonight you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody?"
Trump: "Except for Day 1."
Hannity: "Except for?"
Trump: (pointing to Hannity) "Look, he’s going crazy. Except for Day 1."
Hannity: "Meaning?"
Trump: "I want to close the border and I want to drill, drill, drill."
Hannity: "That’s not retribution."
Trump, referring to Hannity: "We love this guy. He says, ‘You are not going to be a dictator, are you?’ I said, ‘No, no, no, other than Day 1.’ We are closing the border and we are drilling, drilling, drilling. After that I am not a dictator, OK?"
Hannity: "That sounds to me like you’re going back to the policies when you were president
A convicted felon who tried to overthrow American democracy in conversation with a MAGA TV propagandist. That's your source of truth?
A convicted felon of? Checks notes: mislabeling a bookeeping entry, of which will be overturned on appeal, in a heavily dem district, with a dem judge, by a dem prosecutor who ran his campaign on "getting Trump" No one buys this crap, which is why he's still winning in polls.
You are in the Cult of Trump, a parallel world of MAGA propaganda where objective reality, science, evidence, facts, logic are forbidden from entry.
If you think that a Trump 2.0 regime would not be an authoritarian state, then you are even more naive than I first imagined. Trump's whole rationale for getting back in the White House is to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison and to grift at levels far in excess of his first term. Ruling as a dictator and demanding absolute loyalty from all mid-level and senior USG employees, Judges, and military officers guarantees him the best chance of maximizing his income and staying in office for as long as he breathes.
Nope. Politifact.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/dec/07/donald-trump-was-asked-if-he-will-be-a-dictator-if/
This is pretty much it 👇🏽
It's hard to avoid the conclusion that Biden and his campaign are unduly influenced by what they believe should be true rather than what is true. They see Trump as an unspeakably evil man who is an existential threat to democracy and can’t imagine why that view wouldn’t be everybody’s and drive their vote inexorably toward Biden. But it isn’t and the sooner they realize that, the better their chances of actually beating the Bad Orange Man.
Trends in American politics are always far less partisan then they appear, and the recent antidemocratic trend is just one example of it. Biden is arguably the first president since Carter not to understand this.